May 1st, 1970 On The Strip in Kent, Ohio

By Jason Prufer

Easily the darkest chapter in the history of Kent, Ohio is the weekend of May 1-4, 1970. It's actually one of the darkest chapters of the Vietnam War era which in and of itself is one of the darkest chapters in American history. If you live or have ever lived in this town it's a subject that nobody will ever stop talking about.

I've never really been interested in doing any formal writing about the shootings. These events happened five years before I was born and there's literally a few thousand people who are still alive who experienced that weekend who would have a few thousand times more insight than I could ever bring to the table. Also there's like 40 books on the subject. Some of them done by real scholars and eyewitnesses. What more could I possibly add to this story? 

Also the story is so dark and so sad -- not to mention divisive -- I don't like delving too deep into these kinds of narratives. I'm interested in the cool moments in history. That's why most of my writings have been about the coolest aspects of Kent history: DEVO and The Numbers Band and Joe Walsh and the likes. That shit is cool and that shit is as real a part of the history of Kent, Ohio as May 4.

The trash fire in the middle of North Water Street in Kent, Ohio on the

night of Friday, May 1, 1970. Photo by Richard Carlton.

Here's the thing though -- there's one piece of that May 4 story that has intersected with my rock & roll research that I have long needed to flesh out -- no less than seven of my stories have taken place on the old North Water Street bar strip. These stories have included the likes of Emmylou Harris, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Bo Diddley, Aerosmith, The James Gang, Tin Huey and Dan Auerbach all having epic nights on that strip in periods before and after the time of the shootings. So on the 50th anniversary of this horrible weekend I have finally felt compelled to dig into this strip's most famous story and it's the one that directly relates to the Kent State shootings -- the night of Friday, May 1, 1970.

The general narrative of this night goes like this:

Friday, May 1 was the first warm night of Spring 1970, after a long, cold winter. North Water Street was normally packed on a weekend night, attracting not only Kent students, but young people from as far away as Cleveland. This particular evening, the throng is bigger than usual, an eclectic mix of college kids, townies from surrounding hamlets, music fans, drunks, and bikers. The bars are full, the sidewalks outside are packed. The previous evening, President Nixon stunned the nation when he announced, in a speech that was nationally televised, that US forces in Vietnam had just invaded neutral Cambodia. Nixon had vowed to end the war, and now here he was dramatically escalating it. 

All day long, a small group of 25 or so student radicals, the remnants of the Kent SDS chapter, which had been crushed and banished by the university administration and local authorities, have been spreading the word, “Shit is going happen on Water Street tonight!” As the evening wears on and the beer flows, they move through the crowd, whipping up the simmering anger with chants and yells. The crowd starts to fill the street, hurling bottles and cans at any car that tries to force its way through. A rock sails through the window of a loan company. The bikers dump a couple garbage cans in the middle of the street and set the contents on fire. 

At this moment, the Kent police chief makes a huge tactical blunder. He orders all the bars closed. Officers storm the bars, turn on the lights and order everyone out. This swells the crowd on the street by tenfold! Led by the radical contingent, the crowd begins to move down Water Street toward the central intersection with Main Street, chanting antiwar slogans and pumping their fists. When the crowd reaches a cluster of banks, the radicals unleash a hail of rocks and bricks, smashing a total of 56 windows. A phalanx of cops and deputies meet the marchers head on and drive students up the alleys, back toward campus. It is over in minutes. Observing all this is the new Kent mayor, Leroy Satrom, inexperienced, conspiracy minded, and terrified that all 21,000 Kent State students will rise up as one and burn his town to the ground.

An hour later he phones the National Guard and begs for help, setting in motion the chain of events that would lead to the Monday, May 4, 1970 shootings on Kent State's campus which left 4 dead and 9 wounded.

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My personal encounters with this night have involved pondering over the smattering of photos that have surfaced over the years and talking to several local musicians who were down on the strip that night. The photos are fascinating. All taken from a rooftop on North Water Street and appeared to come from two different sources. I followed these photos to their photographers. The first of the photographers I talked to was Ralph Solonitz. A terrific guy and an engaging music fan who I coincidentally knew because of my many years work with The Numbers Band. This is what he told me:

---------------------------------

Ralph Solonitz

"I started at Kent State in 1968 having transferred from Cuyahoga Community College as an art major – graphic design was my interest. In those days we had our classes in the old barracks. That’s where a lot of the art classes were held. One of my classes was Photojournalism with Charlie Brill and that one was in Taylor Hall -- for that particular class I had this assignment which was to go out and do pan-shots, stop action and night shots.

"So a buddy and classmate of mine Rick (Richard) Carlton and I decided to take a lot of different shots around campus and then we decided to do some night shots because that was part of the assignment. So it happened to be a Friday night --- it was a nice night so we decided to go downtown and shoot some photos down there for our night shots. When we got down there we found a spot where we climbed onto a rooftop that was over on the corner of Portage and North Water Street and we started pointing our lenses on the crowds that were outside of that strip of bars that used to be down there. We had no intentions of going into any of the bars that night, we were downtown strictly to take some photos for this class.

Friday, May 1, 1970 showing a crowd in the middle of North Water

Street outside of the old bar strip in Kent, Ohio. Photo by Ralph Solonitz.

"Suddenly all these motorcycle guys start zooming up and down the street, screeching and doing wheelies and people were coming out of the bars to see what was going on. There were cars going up and down the street – turning around and coming back. And then somebody lit a garbage can on fire. So then the police decided that they wanted to break all of this up so they emptied out the bars which was the stupidest thing they ever did because then all of a sudden you had 2000 people out on the street.

"The photos that I took are blurry and at that time I didn’t know how to push film. So that’s what I got. I was using a Minolta Hi-Matic 11 rangefinder. So Rick was up there with me and I believe he had an Asahi Pentax single lens reflex and we were both on the roof there and all of a sudden these events start to unravel.

"So we’re taking these photos and people start marching up and down the street yelling 'get out of Cambodia' – This must have been right around that time that Nixon had U.S. troops invade Cambodia. So what we were witnessing was turning into a drunken, wild, protest, motorcycle – empty out the bar kind of thing and then people start smashing out windows. The next thing I know they start bringing out state police with buses and they start arresting people to break everything up. They brought in these buses that were like what they would use to transport prisoners. I seem to remember seeing chicken wire mesh on the windows. I think that’s what I remember. Sometimes you remember things and you wonder if you are misremembering because these events happened so long ago. All of this happened while we were up on that roof – we were probably up there for maybe 45 minutes to an hour.

"So after that we went back to my house at 927 1/2  South Water Street and we had these photos of the Friday night riot so we call up the Plain Dealer because we thought this was newsworthy and they didn’t really seem interested but they said why don’t you put the roll of film on a Greyhound bus and send them up to us ---  and so we said ya know ---- fuck you (laughs).

Richard Carlton's photo as it

appeared on the front page of

the Akron Beacon Journal 

following the Friday, May 1,

1970 riot on North Water

Street in Kent, Ohio.

"So then we called The Akron Beacon Journal and they said that they hadn’t heard anything about any kind of riot in Kent but they took my phone number and said maybe they’d call me back or something like that. So then at about 4 or 5 in the morning we get this call from the Akron Beacon Journal and they said 'hey come on down we want to see those negatives. We heard about the riots and we want to see the pictures you have – we’ll buy you breakfast too.' So we drive down to Akron and we give them the negatives and they process and print them. That I know of, we had the only photos of that Friday night. They printed Ricks, I don’t think they used mine because mine were slightly out of focus. But they used Rick's because they were decent. I don’t know what he did to make them come out like that but Rick knew his shit."

---------------

After I talked to Ralph he told me to try and track down Rick (Richard) Carlton. He said he hadn't seen him in years but he'd be interested to hear his take on the story since his photos were the ones that wound up in the newspaper. Richard was a little hard to track down but when I finally got a hold of him his story was pretty much identical to Ralph's but with less detail. Richard was a Vietnam veteran and from what I could tell in talking to him, this night seemed like a blip in time to him. He remembered taking the photos, he remembered being on the roof and he remembered handing the roll of film off to the Akron Beacon Journal but a lot of the other details seemed to escape him. It seemed as if (and I believe this to be so) I was the first person to ever interview him about these photos. He also told me that once he handed the roll of film off to the Beacon he never saw them again. He wasn't even aware that one of the photos ended up in the 1971 Chestnut Burr. Rick was a super nice guy though. Very humble and soft spoken but it seemed to me that compared to his experiences in Vietnam, his experiences at Kent State for that weekend of May 1-4 didn't leave nearly the same kind of impression. He told me that he's not the kind of guy that looks back but he seemed to appreciate being recognized for his photography all these years later.

----------------

Some notes here before we move on:

Of all the photos that Ralph Solonitz took that night only two survived and you can see those right here. Of all the photos that Richard (Rick) Carlton took, only nine survived and they ended up being scattered across several varied sources in varying quality. You can see all of those in one place right here. And when we combine the two albums you can see all of the known photos that exist that were taken that night. 

Could there be more photos out there from the May 1 riot? Sure -- and I haven't looked at every single May 4 source that exists but these photos right here represent every single one that has crossed my path in my decades study of the history of Kent, Ohio and as far as I can tell this is the first time the lot of these photos has been put in one place. If you are aware of any more photos I'd love to hear from you and I'd love to see them so that we can add to this collection.

Ralph and Richard took their photos on top of a now long gone old ramshackle building that used to be on the northeast corner of North Water and Portage Street. You can see a photo of that building right here. The building was torn down by at least 1973 but it shows up at the bottom left of this ancient photo of Kent. Currently where the building once stood is the blacktop parking lot for Bent Tree Coffee. Here's what that lot looks like today.

Also I went back to that lot and took some photos of what the old strip looks like now from that point of view. Obviously I was not able to raise myself 20 feet up so this is a little off but here's what that view looks like today.

Also there is a photo that has floated around for years that has been credited as being taken from this night and it is not. I REPEAT -- THE PHOTO I AM ABOUT TO LINK TO IS NOT FROM MAY 1, 1970!! THE PHOTO IS FROM A COUPLE YEARS LATER. The mis-attributed photo can be seen right here.

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A few years ago a couple of the Richard Carlton photos surfaced on Facebook and one of them triggered a story by musician Bruce Fulper who was an eyewitness to the events that went on that night. Bruce was just 16 years old on the night of May 1, 1970 and that old bar strip was within throwing distance of his childhood home on Fairchild Ave. Here's what Bruce wrote about what he experienced.... 

-----------------------

Bruce Fulper

"May 1, 1970 was a Friday and Friday nights in Kent, Ohio -- home of Kent State University, was THE happening place to be in northern Ohio.

"I was lucky enough to have been raised there. And by lucky I’m mainly referring to the fact that as a guitar player, from an early age I was surrounded by many, many talented musicians. Most people know the famous ones who called Kent home: Joe Walsh, Phil Keaggy, Chrissie Hynde. Later, the band DEVO who formed in Kent invented an entire new genre of music and began to inspire a new generation of hip cats. In 1970 every band that played downtown played original music so it was simply THE place to go. Every Friday and every Saturday through the entire year there was always something interesting going on down there on the Kent bar strip.

"This particular Friday night started like so many. I didn’t have to work late at the new Acme/Click store so I ended up getting downtown fairly early. Probably around 7:30, 8:00-ish. Being sixteen and not able to get in most clubs, I hung out on the sidewalk just to hear what the bands were playing. If you stood in the right place by the front door at JB’s 'upstairs' you could see part of the stage. When I couldn’t sneak in, I’d just look and listen.

Crowd in front of JB's and the Ren-De-Vou on North Water Street 

in Kent, Ohio on Friday, May 1, 1970. Photo by Richard Carlton.

"Getting there early the typical thing to do was to hang around on the sidewalk in front of JB’s, killing time, looking for friends and of course, girls. Kent was also a huge hot bed of mean street machines. Street/Strip race cars were always on the prowl. I used to hang out at the local burger places where guys would meet and challenge each other to a race. Looking back it was nuts. At the time it was simply something everyone did and the excitement was addicting. At a time when a thirteen second quarter mile pass was respectable, and a twelve second street car was bad ass, Kent boasted a few eleven second cars and a handful of unreal ten second machines.

"My first real potential killer machine I bought from fellow Acme/Click employee Ken Smith. It was a black primer 1955 Chevy two door sedan with a 327, cross ram log dual quads and some kind of hot cam. It needed a good trans and rear end. Neither of which could I further afford. Every time I’d get the car running I’d take it out on Fairchild Ave. and promptly blow the stock transmission or rear end out of it. The highlight of my mechanical career was winning the biggest drag race the National Hot Rod Association holds at Indianapolis each year. The U.S. Nationals.

"I tell you of my love for drag racing in order for you to understand what I’m about to reveal. This is exactly what transpired that night on Water Street that began the 'US vs. THEM' and the eventual mini bonfire in the middle of the street.

"One of the local gear heads from Hudson, a rich kid who always had some hot car rolled down Water Street from Main Street (very important to the story) in an almost new 1969 AMC Scrambler. You gear heads will know what kind of car this is. For those that don’t know, Rambler was doing their best to compete in the muscle car wars and this particular machine came stock with a 390 cubic inch engine, a four speed and positraction. It was painted red white and blue and had a large factory hood scoop.

"This guy was out to show off and Water Street supplied an enthusiastic audience. I’ve told this story many times over the years and I have been disappointed as opportunistic writers tried to put their spin on what went on that weekend. Sure, some of what has been written is true, but this occurrence -- this was the impetus that got the cops downtown which pissed off all those students, partiers and bikers who just wanted their usual fun Friday night.

"Imagine a fair amount of people walking up and down Water Street. Then imagine a guy in a hot car rolls by, slowing down to a crawl and revs his engine and then floors it. He slams second gear, peels rubber and heads for a stop sign just a few hundred feet ahead. (The crowd goes wild.) Spectators know the stop sign is coming but this guy is a well known wild and crazy young man. He nails the brakes just in time. And, much to our surprise, he makes a U-turn. Usually after making that kind of car ruckus downtown you would get a ticket or even towed. (I know. That’s another story for another time.) The fact that this guy decides to tempt fate is of course very exciting.  Understand that the distance from downtown Main Street’s intersection to the front of JB’s (heading south,) is less distance than the distance to the stop sign heading north. But this crazy new age roman gladiator slows to a roll headed southbound and just as before lands in the throttle and fishtails towards the Main Street intersection! Actually, it’s scary. The excitement was thrilling. Did any cops hear it? Was he going to wreck? Holy Mackerel. Now what?

"Well, 'now what' turned into something more wild than we could imagine. The locals who are reading this will no doubt remember a well-known 'rogue' Kent cop who I will not name. He was kind of a big guy and he had a bad reputation for unfairly harassing people. Kids in general received his kind of  'justice.'  I’m sure if you talk to enough people you’ll get plenty of stories. He was sneaky and everyone knew of him. You wanted to avoid this guy. During this time, the Kent police force was using light blue full sized 1969 Buick four door sedans as their cop cars. Not fast. Not agile. But I’m sure they hauled a lot of donuts.

Composite photo showing the trash fire and the crowd in front of JB's

and the Ren-De-Vou on North Water Street in Kent, Ohio on Friday, 

May 1, 1970. The arrows point out the tire tracks. Other tire tracks

are also visible in this photo. Photos by Richard Carlton.

"In recent years the photos that have surfaced from that night have allowed my story to return to life. Actually I feel vindicated because I realize my story that I have told for years differs from the 'official' version of what happened on that Friday night but you can see those skid marks on the street in several of those photos. And remember -- since I couldn't get into the bars because of my age (16) I was out on the street for the entirety of what went down. This was what I witnessed without any pauses to go in JB's or wherever to drink some beers.

"I don’t remember exactly how long it was before the gladiator returned. Seems like just a few minutes. Our gladiator comes again heading northbound. And this time we know what to expect -- or so we thought. No, this time he comes to a complete stop just past Columbus street.  A half block or so north was an old rough alley way.

"This time, deciding to really show off, our free entertainment driver pushes in the clutch pedal, wails on the gas and side steps the clutch. Boiling tire smoke this time he smashes second gear and really, the crowd went nuts! Just then from behind a building about half way up that alley comes our well-known cop in one of those aforementioned 1969 Buick cop cars.

"Mind you our hero in the AMC Scrambler has a decent head start. And brother, he doesn’t let up this time. He knows he’s being chased and well, you know, 'Fuck that!' The cops Buick bounces and bottoms out coming down the alley then nose dives the front bumper into Water Street as he makes the right turn, flips on the lights and mashes the quadrajet carb wide open. Imagine a sound that’s similar to saying the word Buick and hold the U sound for about ten seconds. Our very own Barney Fife in the Queen Mary was off to chase a light weight red white and blue rocket and everyone was jeering and cheering.

"The stop sign is actually a five way stop. Locals will know that if you make an easy right turn you head northeast on Lake Street. This is a two mile long straightaway before you hit the old bridge by the dump and Boyle's junk yard. Our wild man turns onto Lake Street and we can hear him winding it out. The Buick disappeared behind him. We went back to hanging out, wondering the outcome.

"I can still see the beer can bouncing off the police car's hood as it slowly, defeatedly came back down Water Street. I bet it was a solemn drive for our cop friend. He had either given up the chase or knew he couldn’t or shouldn’t try to catch that fucker so he simply came back downtown. Not a smart thing to do. All of the way past the strip where the bulk of the bars were located the crowd of people were yelling at him. And the crowd was even larger now. The excitement from the chase had brought more people out of the bars and onto the sidewalk. And when the beer can bounced off his hood he slammed on the brakes eager to confront the perpetrator. But there was easily 150 or more people yelling at him and for probably the first time in his career  -- he had to back down. Can you imagine? A policeman known for a mean spirited attitude had twice in a few minutes suffered defeat.

"He roared off southbound, (do the Buick sound again) presumably headed for the Police station located further down on Water Street. The crowd was really feeling their oats and I remember a guy came by me dragging a trash can, dumped it in the middle of the street and set the paper on fire. Someone else dragged another trash can out and dumped it fueling the fire. I don’t think the fire burned all that long. The pictures shows a fairly decent fire going and several trash cans along the curb. But the fire was put out and most people went about their business.

"Roughly around 11 o’clock or shortly after, a few police cars came up Water Street, parked, and the police went into the bars to tell the owners to close down. They also told the customers they were imposing a curfew and to go home. The attempt was inflammatory. It was insane. You don’t tell a couple of hundred drunks to go home for no reason. The outcome was understandable. As the bars were emptied the crowd grew very large on the small sidewalk. Anything that could be thrown at the cops landed all over the place. The street became littered. The police cars got hit. Bottles were being broken everywhere.The scene grew crazier and crazier, and crazier as the cops corralled the kids to Main and Water, then turned them up Main towards the college. It became total mayhem.

"Closing and pulling people out of the bars was a senseless idea. Just because earlier the cop had his ego hurt it’s my opinion that he rounded up some allies at the station and decided to show the kids 'who’s boss.' There wasn’t a reason; in fact there was no OTHER reason to close the bars that night. Even if the police used the fire in the street as a reason it wasn’t a good reason to close all of those bars. The cops created a bad situation and then they lost control."

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Back a couple years ago while I was in the midst of writing my book I was contacted by a gentleman named Chas Madonio who thought I should hear some of his early stories in the Kent music scene. He said he had worked with Joe Walsh and he sounded legit. He asked to meet me down at Tree City Coffee and we had a wonderful conversation. Chas was super engaging and his stories were the real deal. Over the course of our discussions he told me that he was playing in a band on the night of May 1, 1970 down on the strip when everything went haywire. It was a fascinating story that I had never heard before. Some time later when I was trying to put together this story I asked him to write down his recollections for me since they were so unique and not commonly known. Here is the story he gave me:

-------------

Chas Madonio

"As the 1960’s dawned on Kent and Kent State University, a new era of music was about to unfold. It would be an era that would put Kent on the music map and spawn a plethora of musicians -- several who would go on to national and world wide fame. The 60’s was a decade of significant change in all phases of the American lifestyle. In fact, many believe there were more changes in that ten year span than in any other decade before or since.

Photo showing 257 North Water Street in downtown Kent, Ohio 

on the night of May 1, 1970. Photo by Richard Carlton.

"Kent was a typical mid-western college town in 1960. The Beatles hadn’t hit the scene yet and Vietnam was generally unheard of in the bucolic post war years. Kent State had grown by leaps and bounds in the post Korean era and had become a sleeping giant, sitting on the hillside overlooking the city and the Cuyahoga River. There was no hint of the entertainment Mecca it would soon become.

Much of the students’ leisure time was spent at on-campus activities – mixers, fraternity and sorority parties, dances, concerts and other university sponsored functions. The few rock bands played the top 40 music of the day – Ventures, Beach Boys and a variety of singles artists. Music in the early 60’s was transitioning from the Doo-Wop days and really hadn’t defined itself yet. Once the Beatles took the world by storm, everything changed.

"Some students made the short walk to the main part of the city, which has always been referred to simply as 'downtown'. There were a few bars with entertainment, but the choices were limited. The Deck and the Kove, were two basement bars, that featured rock & roll and 3.2% beer (18 was the legal drinking age for 3.2% beer). They were packed with freshmen & sophomore college kids and high school seniors, most with fake ID’s. For the more refined and older students and faculty, Eddie’s Stag Bar featured jazz, hard liquor and excellent food. There were other watering holes – most notably the seemingly ageless Ray’s and the Venice Café. There were “townie” bars like Walter’s Café, then known as Seaver’s or Orville’s, with its bohemian clientele of railroad workers during the day and “beatniks” at night. There were no other outlets for music. If you had a car, you could drive a couple miles to Brady Lake’s Big House, a biker bar. But just by being there, you ran the risk of being involved in fisticuffs.

"By 1963, like mushrooms after a rain, bands began to spring forth and needed places to play. After The Beatles and the British invasion, there was an explosion of new bands, new music and new bars. Within a year or two, Kent’s nightlife came of age. Music was everywhere. Rock clubs and coffee houses, like the Blind Owl, opened and thrived. It was a spontaneous transformation. I started frequenting these establishment, using a fake ID, when I was still in high school. While most guys were interested in dancing and picking up girls, I was more interested in watching the guitar players to figure out what chords they were playing.

"My dream was to become a rock & roll musician, and that dream became a reality when I formed a 3 piece group, which became known as the “Playboys”. This, of course, was several years before Gary Lewis had his group, the Playboys. Over the next 7 years, I was in the thick of the music explosion in Kent, playing is such groups as the Majestics (later the Styx – again, before the national group of the same name), The Measles and Hour Glass.

"Music was king in Kent. It was the hottest place to be in NE Ohio, more popular than Cleveland, Akron or any place else. There were so many great venues – the Kove, the Deck, the 5th Quarter, the Dome, the Exit, Big Daddy’s and more. It was the golden era of rock & roll, and it seemed as though those halcyon days would never end. But there were dark clouds on the horizon. Then came May 1, 1970, the day the music died in Kent.

"Spring arrived the last week of April in 1970. The weather turned unseasonably warm and everyone, including KSU students, were anxious to get out and soak up some sunshine and breathe some fresh air. April had been an eventful month on campus. YIP leader, Jerry Rubin had spoken at a rally and urged students to “kill your parents”. The SDS stormed the Administration Building with a list of demands but were repulsed by Campus Police. And then, on April 30th, President Nixon announced the military “excursion” into Cambodia. The beautiful day of May 1st was fraught with a great deal of tension and frustration boiling just below the surface. In a few hours, it would explode into violence.

Big Daddy's on North Water Street in Kent, Ohio on the night of

Friday, May 1, 1970. Photo by Richard Carlton.

"After many years of rock & roll, I found myself in a honky-tonk band called Mum’s Cameo on May 1st, 1970. We were the house band at a roaring twenties themed bar called Big Daddy’s. We played an eclectic mix of music – prohibition era oldies, country, folk and rock. It was in the heart of the bar district on N. Water St. and featured pizza and pitchers of beer served at picnic tables. It was a fun time sing-a-long bar that drew good crowds. On this night, the bar was about half full and because of the unseasonable warm weather, the front doors were propped open. When we started around 8:30, the street outside the bar was jammed with people, enjoying the ambiance of the first really warm evening of spring. Little by little, they filtered in and by our first break, the bar was pretty full.

"As I stepped out onto Water St., it looked like a big party was going on. The mood of the crowd was lighthearted. Some people walked their dogs, others just milled around. There was nothing to indicate the crowd was there for any other reason than it was a warm Friday night. We went back into Big Daddy’s to start our second set. It was a little past 9:30.

"We took our second break around 10:30. Things outside had started to turn in an unsettling direction. Our drummer, Jim Beal, reminded me later that I made a comment to him about the fact that there were a large number of people that I didn’t know in that crowd. We didn’t claim to know everyone every night, but there was something different about this crowd. By now, they were off the sidewalks and in the street, and the mood was no long pleasant. A car tried to drive thru the crowd on Water St., but that proved to be a bad idea. The crowd, who could now be labeled as a mob, surrounded the car, rocking it, beating on it and kicking it. Eventually, the car got thru, but I’m sure it suffered damages.

"As we went back in for our third set, it was evident this was not going to end well. When we came back out around 11:30, it was a full scale riot. There were literally hundreds of people now. Someone had started a fire in the middle of Water St. They dumped trash on the fire and anything else that was flammable. The demonstrators were hooting and hollering and it was apparent that there was a handful in charge and the vast majority were spectators/cheerleaders. Things were deteriorating very quickly. I don’t remember seeing any police at that time, but I knew they were on their way. We decided to go back inside and start our final set, not knowing it would really be our final set – forever.

A swelling crowd in front of Orville's, The Kove and Big Daddy's on 

North Water Street in Kent, Ohio on the night of Friday, May 1, 1970. 

Photo by Ralph Solonitz.

"We had only played a song or two when two law enforcement officers dressed in full riot gear came into the club and announced “This place is now closed. Everyone leave immediately.” Our first instinct, as it would be with any musician, was for the well-being of our equipment. The police didn’t share that concern and as we were packing up our gear, they came over to us and told us to get out. Ron Pisanello, owner of Big Daddy’s pleaded with them to allow us a few more minutes to help him close the bar, and they agreed. We quickly took the equipment into a storage room in the back of the kitchen and locked it up. Because the stage was right next to the front door, our concern was that if someone broke in, it would be very easy to steal our gear. I packed my guitar up and took it with me as I headed for my car, parked on Portage St., across from St. Patrick’s School. As I left the building, the riot police were herding the demonstration south on Water toward the heart of downtown.

"I took some side streets and reached my home on Morris Rd. in just a few minutes. That ended my night. The next morning, I drove thru town on my way to Big Daddy’s to see if I could get my amplifier. Downtown was strewn with litter and many buildings had broken windows. Big Daddy’s was locked up. It was announced there would be a curfew in effect, meaning the bars would all be closed.

"Little did we know that two days later, the whole town would close down after the shootings. The bars stayed closed for weeks. On May 4th, Kent State closed and all the students were sent home. They didn’t come back until September. There was no need for bands with all the venues shut down. Mum’s Cameo never got back together. We never finished our last song – which I can’t even remember what it was. Kent went to sleep for the summer. It was a long time before it woke up again. According to Don McClain in American Pie, February 3, 1959 was the day the music died, but in Kent Ohio, the day the music died was May 1, 1970."

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A couple notes at the end here:

Photos surfaced recently showing the North Water Street bar strip the following day and you can see those here and here.

You can read one of the "official" versions of what happened in downtown Kent on this night starting on page 239 in the The Report of the President's Commission on Campus Unrest which you can read right here.

The following day some of the students and the townspeople pitched in to help board up and fix the damage done to the local businesses. That evening the mayhem moved on campus and a sizable group of students watched and cheered as the ROTC building burned to the ground just in time for the National Guard to show up. I'm not going to go into all of those details and what followed after that --- there are many other places where you can get that story.

Also as I have stated many times in many of my other stories, the old North Water Street bar strip has been reduced to old ruins these days. If you never knew of its existence you would drive by what's left of it and not even have a clue that what you are looking at was once one of the greatest and most notorious entertainment districts in Ohio. Half the buildings have burned down since 1970 and there is really only one lone establishment left there. Here's a current google street view of what it looks like now.

Also I wrote a book on the rock & roll history of Kent, Ohio. You can purchase it right here.

And finally --- were you down on North Water Street that night? Do you have a story? Comment your story below or below the link on Facebook.

Big thanks to Chas Madonio, Bruce Fulper, Matt Napier, Laura Davis, Carole Barbato, Derf Backderf, Ralph Solonitz and Richard Carlton for their help on this piece.

The Night the Major Record Labels Came to Kent

By Jason Prufer

One legendary Kent rock & roll story involved big name record label reps coming to Kent and Akron in 1978 to scout and sign new talent in the wake of DEVO's then recent success. The first I had ever heard of this was back in 2003 when Western Reserve PBS aired this excellent documentary detailing the stories of several local bands who got caught up in this wave. While this documentary did a really great job telling these stories I wanted to dig deeper. I had a lot of questions that this program did not answer. I wanted to know more specific details about the night in Kent when the band Tin Huey played a show at JB's Up that got them signed to Warner Brothers Records.

Clipping from Robert Christgau's lengthy Village Voice piece on
the Kent and Akron music scene published on April 17, 1978.

When I really dug deep I found out that it was actually a trio of shows at JB's in March and April of 1978 that lead to Tin Huey getting a major label record deal. The story involved three then music industry heavyweights coming from New York City to Kent to see what all the buzz in this area was about. To the average music lover you may never have heard of Robert Christgau, Karin Berg or Jerry Wexler but these were three of the most influential tastemakers of the time -- and Jerry Wexler is a bonafide music industry legend -- famous for coining the term 'rhythm & blues' as well as being responsible for handling the careers of Aretha Franklin, Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan and many more.

But who were these people specifically? And how did they end up coming to visit Kent? What did they do while they were here and what did they experience on those nights at JB's that led them to take a gamble on this group of musicians unknown outside of northeast Ohio.

The band Tin Huey who were the benefactors of this experience were an eclectic avant garde art band who at the time consisted of members Christopher Butler, Harvey Gold, Michael Aylward, Stuart Austin, Ralph Carney and Mark Price. Chris Butler would later find significant success with The Waitresses and Ralph Carney (uncle of Patrick Carney) would also later find success playing saxophone for a long stint with Tom Waits and contributing to recordings and performances with many other big name acts including The B-52's, St. Vincent and The Black Keys.

The linchpin in this entire story is Chris Butler who had only been in Tin Huey for about six weeks when he sent renowned Village Voice music critic Robert Christgau a letter urging him to come to Ohio and check out our music scene up here in the northeast corner. When I asked Chris if I could interview him about these experiences he was more than happy to have me out to his studio in downtown Akron to talk to me about Tin Huey, those times and that roller coaster spring of 1978.

----------------------

Chris Butler and Jason Prufer in conversation about Tin Huey, Karin Berg, Robert Christgau and Jerry Wexler in Kent:

JP: Tell me about Tin Huey

Chris Butler: Tin Huey started as a trio called Rags in the early 70s with Michael Aylward on bass, Mark Price on guitar and Stewart Austin on drums – and then Harvey joined and they had a sax player named Lachlan McIntosh. His son Taylor McIntosh is our reed player. I have a tape of Tin Huey playing at the Town House in Kent from about 1973-1974 and on it they are playing Velvet Underground songs – they are like way ahead. Playing original stuff that is way out there and playing to like 3 ½ people. It might be in the basement of the Town House at The Deck. They are smug, they are elitist and they are brilliant.

I only began to encounter them when I was in The Numbers Band because we would be upstairs (at JB's) and they would be downstairs (at JB's) and vice versa and they had a regular gig and I just thought they were brilliant. Also they had Ralph Carney by then. Ralph Carney RIP – that was rough. It’s still rough.

I had a fanzine at the time called Blank and I wrote about them and how much I loved them. I was in The Numbers Band and then I got fired from The Numbers Band because I missed a rehearsal. You know the work ethic with those guys. I blew off a rehearsal for a photo session for the Stiff Records compilation. Ya know I was grumbling anyway because I worked real hard to sell the Jimmy Bell LP and I couldn’t get any traction. I was frustrated. So I started to write on my own and I hadn’t reached any kind of peak as a writer but I knew I could do this. Something that was a little bit of a bubble was happening for me. I was bitchy. I was in an “I hate the world” kind of phase. I couldn’t understand why nobody would recognize this wonderful band (numbers band) which is now hitting it’s 50th year. So I got fired and I said to myself “I’m done, no more goddamn bands for me.”

And then very quickly, within a month actually -- Ralph Carney told people that this Butler guy was another writer. Tin Huey wanted another writer which I thought was ridiculous because everyone in the band wrote. But I swore I was not gonna join another band.

JP: So we are talking about early 1978 right? Somewhere in there? So then how did you end up in Tin Huey and then how did this whole thing with the record companies begin?

Chris Butler: Yes. Mark Price had a rehearsal room/recording studio at his house here in Akron on Oakdale and I began going over there and hanging out and playing and I had a tune I was recording. I think they had tried recording tracks out there as well. Meanwhile I had written a letter to Robert Christgau the writer at the Village Voice. I had seen this great article that he wrote about the scene in London so I decided to write him a letter saying that we have this great scene here in NE Ohio. By then I had kind of reluctantly joined Tin Huey because really I thought they were just so amazing and I wasn’t even sure what my role was. To this day I still feel like the one guy too many in that band. They can do fine without me but they generously say “no”. I was a total auxiliary player: guitar, percussion – Tin Huey’s modus operandi was always throwing one more instrument on a song than was necessary.

So I sent this letter and I said “you really ought to come here, something's going on here” and I got a phone call. And he said “yeah ok.”

JP: So Robert Christgau called you and said “I will come to Akron”?

Chris Butler: Yeah – then ---- “SHIT!! OK!! WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO?” So I called Joe Bujack (JB) who owned and booked JB’s and I told him what was up and that this guy is coming to see the band and we need this night and he says to me “Chris – you need a date at my club? You gonna be like that fuck Joe Walsh who becomes a big rock & roll star who will never play my club again who is good for shit?” and then he says “alright alright, I’ll give you the date.”

Piece from the Daily Kent Stater published March 10,
1978 previewing the first of three showcase
performances by Tin Huey at JB's noting the
attendance of Village Voice writer Robert Chistgau.

Ok so now we have a date and that date was Friday, March 10, 1978. But I had also told Robert Christgau that we had a scene. Do we have a scene? So I had to get posters together, I had to find an opening band – The Bizarros. I had to cobble a PA system together from 2 or 3 other PA systems. So Christgau comes! And we put on a show! And we made sure it was packed and it was PACKED and he had a great time and we had a great time and everyone had a great time and Chistgau goes back to New York and then I got a telephone call…

“Hey this is Robert Christgau I want to bring my friend Karin Berg from Warner Brothers out to see you guys and to see a show. We’re coming in two weeks.”

SHIT!!! OK!!! WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO? So I call Joe Bujack again “Joe this is Chris Butler again” Joe says “Chris fuck you, you want another date at my club? You gonna be like that fuck Joe Walsh who is never gonna come back and play my club? This gonna make you a big rock star so you can never come back and play my club?” – so he gives us a date. We make more posters, we get an opening band – Chi-Pig. I cobble together another PA system. We gotta make sure that place is packed. And that date was Saturday, April 1, 1978.

Daily Kent Stater blurb previewing the second of three showcase
performances by Tin Huey at JB's set for April 1, 1978. This
would be for the night that Karin Berg would attend. 

So the night of the show Karin Berg shows up – and she has a wonderful time. She’s floored. Great scene, great people, great fun, good bands. Whew --- she’s done she goes back to New York. My phone rings again like it had two weeks before. This time it’s Karin Berg. “Hey it’s Karin, I’m gonna come again and this time I’m bringing Jerry Wexler to Kent. I’m coming in two weeks. Can you organize a show?

SHIT!!! OK!!! WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO? So once again I call Joe Bujack “hey it’s Chris Butler ---” and he says “oh you calling again this is three times now – you gonna be big rock stars like that fuck Joe Walsh who won’t play my club.” So he gives us now a third date which was Friday, April 21, 1978. Ok -- so we make and put up posters, find an opening band -- Chi Pig again, cobble together a PA -- you know the drill.

Daily Kent Stater piece following the second of three
showcase performances by Tin Huey at JB's. This was
published on April 7, 1978 -- two weeks before the
final showcase performance.

We put on a show. Jerry Wexler shows up and he says “I wanna sign your band.” We said that’s great – but the band you really want to hear is downstairs and it’s The Numbers Band and they are playing downstairs right now. And he goes “nope” I don’t want to go down there. And I said “they’re brilliant R&B” and he said “nope.” So we tried to get Jerry Wexler in front of the Numbers Band and he wouldn’t go. He also brought another guy with him Michael Ostin who was another A&R guy from Warners out of New York.

Remember – big record companies in those days -- Columbia was New York centered. Warner Brothers was Los Angeles and New York and what we didn’t know was that they were in competition. An internal competition between west coast Warner Brothers and east coast Warner Brothers. You may have heavyweights in New York but the decision and the main office and Mo Ostin and all the big producers like Ted Templeman and most of the bands that get signed, get signed out of Los Angeles. One of the things we didn’t know was that being one of Jerry’s kids didn’t exactly help us a whole hell of a lot.

In hindsight what we should have said to Jerry Wexler was “Mr. Wexler, I’ve only been in this band for 6 weeks, I don’t know what I am doing in here, we do not have our act together, we do not have a manager, we have not played other places, we have a great following here but it’s not enough, come see us in a year. Let us get better. That’s what Talking Heads did. Talking Heads told Sire, "thank you, we’re flattered, we’d love to do this – we’re not ready." They waited till they had their business organized. They waited till they had enough shows under their belt that they built up a following. They waited till they had two albums worth of material accumulated because they knew they couldn’t write. They knew if they were out promoting one record they couldn’t be writing another one. They did the smart thing. In my opinion that’s what Tin Huey should have done.

JP: Do you remember Jerry showing up and being in JB’s? What do you remember about that?

Seating area at JB's Up on the east side of the club showing the booths where
Jerry Wexler would have been "holding court" on the night of  April 21, 1978.

Chris Butler: Yeah -- They had some booths at JB’s. If you are standing in front of the stage there were booths to the right. And Jerry was holding court in one of those booths with Karin (Berg). He was sitting like a mafioso – he’s got his back to the wall and making sure he knows where the entrance and the exit is for a fast getaway. I remember he was enjoying the show and he had some other people coming up to him to talk to him. But they were over in a corner booth and we finished our set and he said “yeah you guys are really good and I really like your grooves” even though we didn’t have any grooves, we were a grooveless band. In fact if there was a groove that lasted anymore than four bars we’d step on it and take it somewhere else. He said “I want to sign you, do you have a manager, do you have a lawyer” – all the usual stuff. We were all sitting at that table when he said he wanted to sign us. At least Harvey and I were.

JP: Do you remember seeing Wexler in the audience while you played.

Chris Butler: Well he would have been off to my left and I imagine I would have been too terrified to look. I don’t know what Jerry heard in us to want to sign us but he must have heard “I’m a Believer” and he must have heard “I Wanna Be Your Dog” and he saw an audience.

This was a scene that supported it’s bands. People weren't there that night because a famous person was there because most of that audience wouldn't have known who those people were anyway. But they supported the bands. We really needed everyone to come out and they did and that was wonderful. So hats off to the audience. There was genuine enthusiasm in that audience. I don’t think it was forced. We had become popular. There was a buzz about us.

JP: So then after this night what happens with the band?

Chris Butler: So then you get that panic. What do you do? Karin Berg became our liaison. We ended up with David Sonenberg being our attorney. Karin said we needed a manager and we said we didn’t have a manager and she said “do you have a good friend” and we said yeah Jim Kauffman is our good friend and then he became our manager.

JP: Did Jim do a good job?

Chris Butler: Jim did the best he could. Tin Huey should have waited a year. We could have had our shit more together. We could have played out in Detroit two or three times. We could have played several cities two or three times. We could have gotten the taste for playing to cold audiences. We could have gotten the taste for just building our own scene. I mean it’s all DIY.

Ya know I saw David Giffels the other night give a reading at the Akron Public Library and he made a quip – he said “well ya know this Akron -- nothing happens here so you have to make it happen.” Which is a void a DIY must fill. And we did that! We put on those shows. But it wasn’t enough. We should have done more. We thought we were ready. We were not ready – in my opinion. Harvey may feel different.

JP: So then you got signed? What happened next? Did you guys go out to Los Angeles?

Chris Butler: Well we eventually we went to LA but this was out of the New York office.

JP: So then what happened when you finally put out the record?

Chris Butler: Once they put out the record then it’s your job to do everything we should have done in that year. Go and play places. We got on a couple bad tours. Harvey will lament that we had a chance to go on tour with Roxy Music though you would have to talk with him about those details. We worked really really hard but we made some classic mistakes. Mistakes isn’t the right word -- we tried to become a rock band and Tin Huey was an art band and I am to blame for that and so is Harvey. We should have been a Flaming Lips or a Guided by Voices. We should have dug in and made a lot of music, played out a lot, found our own audience and made our own audience. This was not the kind of band to open for people. We should have done it all ourselves. We should have done the heavy lifting.

When you get a record contract all you did was get a job. You got hired. Because once you get it they then turn to you and they say “ok --- what are you gonna do?” A record company is a bank and that’s it. And yeah they did promote the album and they did this and they did that. I even had a friend from High School who worked at Warners and he was supportive – in a corporate executive kind of way. Which was – not very much.

Harvey will tell you that we had a chance to be on Saturday Night Live but Ted Templeman in LA had a protege, and Ted Templeman pulled strings and got that slot for Saturday Night Live and instead of putting Tin Huey in there he put the then unknown Rickie Lee Jones on.

JP: I’ve seen that performance on SNL.

Chris Butler: It’s killer – it made her.

JP: So that night it could have been Tin Huey?

Chris Butler: Yes

JP: So then eventually how did you get out of it or how did it end?

Chris Butler: Well obviously we didn’t do real well. The record company did the things they were supposed to do. Warner Brothers used to put out these “dollar records”. They were double albums where they were loss leaders. Remember, Warners was the Cadillac label. So they would do these loss leaders which were these samplers they would sell for a buck and they would feature everyone who they had on the label. And they put us on there. They put “Hump Day” on there and they put “I’m a Believer” on there. So they did what they were supposed to do but eventually it was like “ok you are gonna be dropped, we’re not gonna pick this up” so we said “but our contract says two records firm!” But the label didn’t want to do the next record and by that time we were already doing demos and we were committed to another album. In the end they dropped us but because we had a good lawyer they paid us $30,000 to get out of our contract.

We split that money and then we released “English Kids” as a single. Someone even wrote “finally the band gets dropped and then they come out with a commercial single” (laughs)

JP: The Waitresses show up 2 years later. That’s not that far off.

Chris Butler: Yeah The Waitresses show up in 1981 and Tin Huey was dropped in 1979. So for two years I didn’t know what I was doing and eventually I started The Waitresses.

Tin Huey actually had a good following in New York.

JP: Really?

Chris Butler: Oh yeah Tin Huey actually had a great following in New York.

JP: Where would you play in New York?

Chris Butler: Oh my god – biggest clubs. Hurrah, Irving Plaza – oh yeah we were the shit. We were regulars at those places. Tin Huey opened for Television in July 1978 at The Bottom Line – the last three shows before they broke up. I have a tape of it. It was a treat. Two shows a night over three nights. They were on it like no other band you’ve ever seen or heard because they didn’t give a damn anymore and they were just fantastic. But that was it because we hadn’t done that legwork. You’d think that would be it but it’s not enough. It’s not enough for a long term career.

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On the night Jerry Wexler came to Kent (Friday, April 21, 1978) Tin Huey were playing JB's Up and veteran band The Numbers Band were playing JB's Down. The two clubs at that time were literally right on top of each other with their two entrances next to each other on the street level of North Water Street. A few years ago I did a story about The Numbers Band and an encounter they had with the band Aerosmith when they showed up unexpectedly at JB's back in 1978. For that story I interviewed Robert Kidney who gave me some background on how that difficult era was for his band. During our interview Robert brought up that night that Jerry Wexler came to JB's. This (previously unpublished) excerpt is from that interview.

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Daily Kent Stater ad showing the roster of
performers at JB's Up and Down for the
weekend of April 21, 1978.

Robert Kidney and Jason Prufer in conversation about the night Jerry Wexler visited JB's. 

----

JP: Do you remember knowing Jerry Wexler was going to show up?

Robert: Oh yeah I knew all about it. I knew Jerry Wexler was coming and I knew Karin Berg was coming. It was all over the place. Tin Huey was going to get signed. It was a setup. They were coming into town to hear Tin Huey and sign them.

JP: What do you remember about the night?

Robert: We were in the basement playing to nobody and they were upstairs playing to a full house. You have to remember, The Numbers Band was isolated at that time. We were our own entity and people were looking at us as being vulnerable because of the fire at the Kove and all these other things. At this time I was referred to as “the old man who plays the blues.” We were being run down because of the 'new wave.' It was over for us. And so that night before we played I’m standing in front of the door that goes down the stairs and into the basement because I’m waiting for Jerry Wexler. I’m standing there watching all these people filing in upstairs.

JP: So you wanted to catch Jerry Wexler --- you were on a little bit of a mission that night.

Robert: I was not on a little bit of a mission – that was the only reason to do anything. I was going to get Jerry Wexler to hear our band. That was my goal. I stood out there for 45 minutes. I was not going to miss him. Period. I saw an opportunity that I was not going to blow off. I had a band. I had a business. I wanted people to be successful. I wanted the band to be successful. Ya know I wasn’t against being successful, I was against being manipulated to be successful. This guy coined the term rhythm & blues. He signed Aretha Franklin. I thought “now here’s a motherfucker who would get our music. He would get it.”

And as I am standing up there, this guy comes walking in who I have known for several years and he doesn’t say anything to me – he didn’t say hello, he didn’t say how are you -- he just glared at me. And the feeling I got from him was “you are over” and then he walked in. And it was horrible because people were telling us we were over – everywhere. That’s all I was getting. From the club owner. From the club manager. We were over -- and then Jerry Wexler walks in.

JP: Where did he walk in from?

Robert: He walked in from off the street out of his limo. And he’s on the street and before he’s about to walk into the upstairs club I stopped him and shook his hand and I said to him “Mr. Wexler I have a band, The Numbers Band and you might like our take on rhythm & blues and we're playing downstairs. Would you come and see us for a little bit?” and he said he would --- and he never came downstairs.

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While interviewing Chris Butler he kept insisting that I talk to fellow Tin Huey bandmate Harvey Gold. Harvey is one of the professorial masterminds behind many local bands including The HiFi's, Half Cleveland and of course Tin Huey. When I got a hold of Harvey he had a lot to say about those times, being on a major label and of course those trio of shows at JB's in the spring of 1978.

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Jason Prufer and Harvey Gold in conversation about Tin Huey and those trio of shows at JB's in the spring of 1978.

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JP: Tell me about Tin Huey, what was it about, how did it form and how did you end up at JB’s?

Harvey Gold: Tin Huey was a band that came out of a conflagration from the very very early 1970s called Rags which was made up originally of Mark Price, Stewart Austin and Michael Aylward. At some point I joined on keyboards and Mark left and Michael, Stewart and I continued on as a kind of little acoustic band doing T. Rex tunes and Tim Buckley and god knows what else. Eventually we went electric and based on a reasonably drug inspired bit of nonsense we named the band Tin Huey. The three of us added a couple of different members into the band and ultimately settled into the Tin Huey that would be most appropriate to your timeline – it settled with Mark Price rejoining the band on bass, Michael Aylward, Stewart Austin and me. That was the four piece and then we had Ralph Carney join us. That was when he got out of High School and that would have been about 1974/1975.

The relationship with JB’s was very odd because Tin Huey was a geeky enough band doing ya know very extended versions of songs by Soft Machine, Faust, The Velvet Underground and our own stuff which was certainly equally eclectic -- really more esoteric – it was pretty strange stuff.

We ended up getting the gig at JB’s – there was a fellow – I should interrupt this narrative to say that some of my memories are real memories and some are memories that are sort of from hearing and taking part in rehash oral history for 40 years. We started playing JB’s --- my recollection is that there was a guy whose name was Mike Wabble who sort of ran the upstairs during the week for Joe (Bujack). I remember he was a little guy with dark hair and a little dark beard – very sweet guy. And it seemed to me that the reason he wanted Tin Huey to play upstairs while 15-60-75 was downstairs was because we had a saxophone player. And this guy who managed JB’s was a big Grover Washington Jr. fan. Now if you know the music of Grover Washington Jr. you know that in certain respects you couldn’t travel farther to find a band like Tin Huey. Grover Washington Jr is more of a straight forward kind of linear player – he’d play these soft beautiful pretty things and that’s fine it’s just that Tin Huey was like this really angular truly eclectic strange band. We had a sax player who would spend at least half his time squawking through a variety of instruments --- so other than the fact that we had a sax player we couldn’t have been a more different band than what the manager of JB’s could have wanted. My recollection is that we did three nights a week at JB’s for a number of months.

JP: So they liked you – or somebody liked you.

Harvey Gold: Well ya know I think upstairs during the week they never really were able to bring anybody in. Anybody who was really going to the bar was going downstairs to see The Numbers Band. So I think it was more like “well if you guys are willing to work for the door and you can build up a following or you can do whatever you do and you are willing to play for the night, then you are welcome to have a space to play.” Ya know we brought our own PA system. We brought everything in ourselves and just set up and played for three nights a week.

JP: So from the time that you started playing three nights a week till the night that Jerry Wexler walks in which starts I believe with Robert Christgau. How long is that. What is the time period?

Harvey Gold: Ya know I was having a problem figuring that out. I think it was a few months.

JP: So things must have started moving fast as soon as you were at JB’s?

Harvey Gold: Well no – here’s the thing. And I think credit really has to go where it’s due. We were playing – we had a little bit of a following. We absolutely did. At this point we had put out a single and an EP on Nick Nicholis's On Clone label. And I had put out my single experiments by this point. And I’ll explain what “this point” is in a second. And so we’d had some notoriety and some notes about us in the Village Voice and Creem and maybe Crawdaddy or Trouser Press. I’m not sure actually --- I’d have to look at the clippings. I didn’t pay too much attention to that when we were putting out our indie releases.

Locally – honestly as far as a following is concerned, I don’t have a recollection of getting more than 15-20 people into JB’s to see us play on any given night up to this point. And it was at this point that Chris Butler joined the band. Now the way this had worked was that while we (Tin Huey) was upstairs they (The Numbers Band) were downstairs. On occasion I would hear in the darkness coming off to my left by the front door and the stairs somebody yelling to me out of the dark “Harvey, Harvey Gold! Call your motha”. And that was Chris Butler heckling me. And I thought, that’s pretty funny. Chris also put out a record as The Waitresses around the same time we put out one of ours.

There were some conversations and there were some urgings from other people to have Chris join us. I don’t really remember the details of any of that. That’s a history that sort of went around me but ultimately we asked Chris to join the band and when he did, there was this interesting synergy that just sort of like blew up which was him and me getting kind of nuts about being really ambitious in terms of really solidifying what Tin Huey did. And it involved some of his material. When he joined we really ended up doing a crash course in getting the band to do some of his stuff which meant we were really really really practicing a lot. We were integrating his stuff with our stuff and it just had us on a really manic period where Chris and I were drinking gallons of coffee while we were writing songs and putting things together in a far more cohesive kind of set. So this was really where we were when we played that gig that Robert Christgau attended which was on Friday, March 10, 1978.

We started really theming our shows because we were really juicing him because we didn’t want anyone really important coming to our gigs to an empty room. So the first gig was called ‘Tin Huey devours The Waitresses’. We put posters up everywhere and we had a big full page poster on the back page of Chris’s then underground newspaper – we did whatever one did back in those pre-internet days to get as many people to show up as possible. We were probably plastering the KSU campus with all sorts of shit. And we ended up getting a lot of people coming in to those, what we will call, showcase gigs.

JP: What do you remember about that night with Robert Christgau in the audience?

Harvey Gold: I know that was the night we played with The Bizzaros. Ya know Robert came to Akron to work on his writing series “Big Noise from the Boonies” for the Village Voice. Robert had written about the Tin Huey stuff but that was only because of his relationship with Nick Nicholis of The Bizarros who had been sending him these singles. Also Chris Butler had been corresponding with him. I am not sure when and how and for how long but that was another connection he had with what was going on around here. But Robert came and I remember it was those two bands and we played. We did a pretty neat set.

JP: Did you meet Robert that night? What do you remember about that?

Harvey Gold: I remember that he said he really liked us. That’s about all I remember because I don’t believe that he made his declaration that night – although he might have. I’m not sure if I remember if it was that night or via phone call. The most important note was when he said "I don’t normally like stuff like this." We certainly weren’t able to define ourselves because we were so eclectic. He thought of us as being some sort of really interesting variation on being a prog band. Probably because we played a lot of chords and did time shifts – and it didn’t matter that we did it at 140 decibels. He said “ya know I have never done this before and as a journalist it’s strange to do it, but I really feel compelled to do this – I’m going to be telling my friend Karin Berg about you”. And then he explained that Karin was A&R at Warner Brothers Records and he told us that she’d probably want to check us out -- hear the music and see the show. So that’s when we started freaking out a little bit.

JP: Now Karin Berg was one of the most famous record execs ever right? She’s one of those types who plucks unknown artist out of obscurity and makes them stars. She was responsible for The Cars, Television and played a big roll in R.E.M.'s career.

Harvey Gold: Right before we had Chris join the band and all these events took place, we’d actually been having conversations based on the idea of moving to Europe. We were an interestingly strange band that was really eclectic that did not have a lot of pop in it. And because of the Canterbury scene in England a lot of these European bands that were at the very least making enough money to exist and have something of a career over in England and western Europe. We thought ya know --- we have a band, we’re dedicated to doing what we’re doing – we are committed. So we were definitely looking at moving over to Europe at least for a time and then this happened. This was kind of a big deal. I never had any pretensions that Tin Huey was going to be major label fodder.

JP: Right but if they are knocking at your door what are you supposed to do?

Harvey Gold: Well at that point you say "yes thank you – can I get you a cup of coffee?" It was a big deal. Even having Robert Christgau write this piece and like us. That was kind of a big deal for us too. Remember at that time --- we were so busy really as both musicians and as carnival barkers and just doing what we were doing. We all also were working real jobs. We also had to pay the rent. Because of all this there wasn’t a whole lot of time to think about what was going to happen down the line until this thing started happening. Ya know we did a lot of thinking on our feet and in some ways I am very pleased with how we handled things but – at the end of the day – we were just busy trying to get this band where we wanted to get it depending upon how much space was opened up in front of us.

JP: So really this takes us to Act 2 of this story. The Karin Berg night at JB’s. Take me from the Robert Christgau night to the Karin Berg night. This was the Friday, April 1st night. Tin Huey Day.

Daily Kent Stater ad showing the roster of performers
for the weekend of April 1, 1978.

Harvey Gold: So Karin called and she wanted to hear the band so we had to do two things. We had to continue really really jamming in terms of the band practicing and refining the sound and getting better and then we had to figure out what we were going to do onstage. This involved determining what the tricky fun stuff was that we wanted to do. I know that at one of those gigs – and I think it might have been this one for Karin – Debbie Smith and Sue Schmidt of Chi Pig – Chi Pig opened up for the Karin Berg gig. We decided to do “Tumbling Dice” which keeping in mind, we love the song but for Tin Huey that was as much of a humorous statement as when we did our version of “I’m a Believer.” Ya know sometimes we were just so cute and so funny that we were the only people who were laughing. But – Sue and Debbie actually put on afro wigs and came up onstage while we did "Tumbling Dice" and were backup singers.

JP: And there’s a video of that. And you think that’s the Karin Berg night or do you know that’s the Karin Berg night.

Harvey Gold: I think that’s the Karin Berg night. (note from me (Jason) the video below IS from that night and Karin Berg is in the audience))



JP: Yeah and again this is 40 years ago so I know that even the sharpest memories have faded since then. So I am glad to get whatever information I can on this.

Harvey Gold: Yeah and I can’t always speak to what my condition was while things were supposed to be printing to my synapses.

JP: I’m surprised anyone remembers anything to be honest.

Harvey Gold: Well ya know it’s an interesting thing and we do speak to that period of time and we talk about how we got out of it relatively unscathed. And there’s a delineation between having memories compressed so that they are on like microfiche so when somebody actually says “oh we did this” you are more than likely going to say “oh that’s right, I forgot.” You can tell me something happened 20 times and my only actual recollection of the event is you telling me that it happened 20 times.



At any rate the thing that was most notable about the Karin show is that we did our first set and then took a break and Karin, as I remember it, took Chris and me aside and said “do you guys have a lawyer?” I believe that was her opening volley. That’s how I remember it. And I said “no” and she responded with “I don’t normally end up recommending a lawyer -- an attorney to negotiate with us when we offer a band a record deal but I want you guys to come onto Warner Brothers and I know a really good lawyer who could represent you if you’d like” and that lawyer was David Sonenberg. And at that point I can’t even vaguely speak to how we emotionally reacted to that. But I do know that we were so mentally jacked up that we pretty much sucked during our second set. But fortunately we didn’t suck enough for her to withdraw the offers. So that was good.

Karin Berg was a very big deal and an amazing woman. She’s appeared in books written about the rock industry. She was also a mover and a shaker in the civil rights period. She was a very smart lady. She once told me that somebody once told her to go see this band that was kind of up and coming called Talking Heads and when she came back they said “what do you think, you gonna sign them?” and she said “no I don’t want to sign them.” and they said “are you crazy? Really?” and she said “No I think they are wonderful but at the moment I am working for Elektra Records and we have – it’s a small label and we have Television and I don’t think the label can handle both Television and Talking Heads at the same time and I don’t want to do them an injustice. So no I am not offering them a deal.” I thought wow – this lady is cool. She signed Dire Straits – she signed quite a few strong acts.

JP: So then take me to the Jerry Wexler night which would be Friday, April 21, 1978.

Harvey Gold: It didn’t seem to me that she didn’t want to sign us. It didn’t seem to me that she had to have Jerry there in order to sign us but maybe. Jerry had just become Vice President in charge of A & R for Warner Brothers in New York and she felt that he should come see us. So --- as I recall Jerry came and Michael Ostin came who is Mo Ostin’s son. Mo Ostin who was at the time president of Warner Brother Records. I think Jerry’s son Paul may or may not have come. But I could be wrong. It was probably just Jerry and Michael Ostin.

So anyway Jerry came to see us and that probably takes us to the night that you probably have some questions about. It seems to me that we are talking about increments of three weeks between each gig.

JP: Yeah that’s what Chris told me. So then after the Karin Berg night when is the next time that you hear about Jerry Wexler coming to a show?

Harvey Gold: So probably a couple days later Karin called and said she wanted Jerry to come and see a gig. So now all of a sudden we had to do another showcase gig with Jerry coming.

JP: So now take me to the night that Jerry comes to JB’s.

Harvey Gold: So then Jerry comes and my recollection of that is we still put together a show and there were a lot of people there and it went really well. I don’t know why but the thing that I thought was funny was that it seemed to me that the only compliment that Jerry gave us was that we were in tune and that he wasn’t used to hearing bands these days who actually are in tune. That I remember and then I thought --- ya know, I guess if that’s the only real compliment that I am going to get that night from him I’ll take it. (laughs) But I thought wow this is a guy really from a different generation. It was almost like somebody said – hey you guys are pretty good for a bunch of mop tops.

JP: When you shut your eyes and you look in your minds eye and you look at the visuals and the impressions from that night. What do you see? Do you see what he is wearing? Do you see him entering JB’s? Do you see where he is sitting?

Original poster for the final showcase
performance by Tin Huey at JB's Up
on April 21, 1978.

Harvey Gold: I don’t see all that but I see us sitting down with Jerry at the table with Michael (Ostin) and probably Karin. Although I do know that Karin spent a fair amount of time hanging out with my wife Kay. So they might have been off talking at that point. The only thing I do remember thinking is how – they were nice enough guys and I believe it was that night that Jerry suggested --- he said “I’m not telling you that you have to do this, this is not a make or break thing but I would like you to consider the possibility of having my son Paul produce you.” I remember that happening and I don’t remember if it was that night or very shortly after. But that’s one of the big memories that I associate with Jerry. We didn’t know anything that Paul had done or not done we were still --- our mouths were still hanging open and we were hustling like crazy people to figure out what our next move was. We wanted to be savvy and we wanted to be smart in this industry because ya know for a bunch of snot nosed youngsters who do crazy shit, we really wanted to be able to be as smart as we could be. Tin Huey was a smart band. We played smart music – if there is such a thing. We never saw us as being a crowd pleasing dance band that’s for sure. Given the fact that most of our songs you couldn’t even dance to.

I also remember moving towards the front entrance (of JB’s) and I know that Jerry wanted all of us to get something to eat. He was hungry. And by all of us I think he meant Chris, me, my wife, Michael (Ostin), Karin and him. I don’t remember the rest of the band being invited because it was essentially Chris and I were sort of the business arm and the spokespeople for the band. And I remember --- it was initiated by Chris – and this meant enough that I also chimed in to try and be forceful about this to get him to go downstairs to go and hear The Numbers Band before he left. Because we thought – and Chris was more informed than I was on this because honestly other than hearing them from the top of the stairs occasionally I had never gone to see The Numbers Band. So I had never heard them plus I had never met Bob – I had heard so many stories about Bob that I was scared of him. Seriously I am not joking I was totally intimidated. But on breaks Dave Robinson, Michael Stacey and Jack would all come up and hang out. Not as often with Jack but I was acquainted with him and he did come up.

At any rate we both hit up Jerry and said “hey if you could just take a few minutes and go downstairs and check out The Numbers Band. They would be right in your wheelhouse” because he was an r&b guy. And he just wouldn’t fucking go downstairs. He didn’t say “ok let’s go downstairs for five minutes” and then he decided he didn’t like them -- he wanted to go eat. He was not interested in seeing another band that night despite the fact that we were absolutely advocating for them. That then over the years grew into such a fucking mythology.

Then after that we went and ate somewhere. I don’t remember eating. I don’t remember where we went and I don’t remember anything else from that night. I’m pretty sure we ate in Kent but I couldn’t tell you where.

JP: So then what came about with all this? You got signed and then what happened with the band?

Harvey Gold: So after that, Chris and I flew to New York. We borrowed money to give a retainer to our attorney David Sonenberg. David was Patti Smith’s lawyer and Meatloaf’s manager and he ultimately ended up having some notoriety for being the executive producer for that Muhammad Ali/James Brown Rumble in the Jungle movie that won the Academy Award. So Chris and I flew to New York just to hand the check to David and do whatever paperwork and have a little bit of a meeting and apparently Warners knew we were coming into town. They actually thought that we were potentially going to be meeting with other record labels. So then I actually got paged at the Pittsburgh airport while we were on a layover on our way to New York by Warner Brothers and my wife called and said that Warner Brothers had gotten a room for Chris and I to stay in at the Essex House on Central Park South. So we said “thank you – that’s really gonna beat us staying on our friend Ed’s floor.”

So then we check in there and we met with David about what we thought would be a good deal but then David thought we were crazy but accepted what we had to say because he wasn’t familiar with this big surge that was going on – Chris and I had talked to Gerry Casale and Mark Mothersbaugh about what the DEVO deal was and then of course we pared down our expectations – because we weren’t DEVO. But it kind of told us what ballpark we thought we might be able to be talking in. And so we came up with numbers that we thought were intelligent as far as being in a band and it was a good idea because David was saying “nobody is gonna give a band money like that” and then he went and he was a good lawyer and asked for more than we wanted and came in with what we wanted! So that was kind of neat and it was kind of good and bad.

We ended up having too rich of a contract when the record industry crashed right after the release of our first album. So that kind of got us out of the game. As it turned out we were too expensive to keep around. At another point I remember when we were on the road and Chris and I popped down to New York from Boston or someplace like that to pick up some cash --- and at one point Chris and I went to lunch at the Friars Club with Jerry Wexler which was really kind of cool. And we had lunch with him in the Milton Berle room. I just remember thinking “wow, how did we get in here?” And at some point one of us said “ya know you’ve got so many stories Jerry and you’ve got such a history behind you that somebody’s got to do a book on you.” And he reached down into his briefcase and pulled out a book that had a chapter on Jerry Wexler and showed it to us.

JP: So then looking back all these years later would you change anything? Do you think you played it well? Was it an incredible experience? Was it a disappointing experience? What do you make of this now 40 years later?

Harvey Gold: Oh I thought it was an incredible experience. Would I have changed anything? Yes. First of all if I could have changed anything – one of the things that we did was – when Chris and I tended to listen to our guts, we would bat 1000. And this one time --- I was really good friends with Ed Strait who at the time was working with EG Management. EG Management in New York managed Robert Fripp/King Crimson, Brian Eno and Roxy Music. And I think we had a chance and we really pushed --- there was an opportunity there before when we came out with our new album for us to go on the road with Roxy Music on their North American tour. And I think that would have been a perfect audience for – and as I look back though maybe not – but I think it would have been a more perfect audience for Tin Huey than just about any other audience at that time.

And both Karin and David talked us out of it. They said we first needed to go out on our own headlining club tour when the album comes out. And we thought – well they must know better but I think we should use that tour support to go out on the road with Roxy Music but ok... And to this day I regret that decision because I would have liked to have seen what would have happened and frankly I would have liked to have had that in my pocket of experiences. Even if it would have all gone to hell (laughs). That’s about it.

There are times when I look back at the album itself and I say – boy ya know we would have been better off saving the money and recording it here in Cleveland and producing it ourselves – although I don’t think Warner Brothers would have wanted us to self produce. And we ended up looking at a number of producers. And Paul actually said to me recently that halfway through the recording of that album that he wanted to quit because he had no idea what the hell to do with us. So I don’t know if another producer would have helped make the album a little bit more accessible – but ya know – those are things that you can always wonder about. Ya know we went through part of that period where we were really and truly just following our muse which really is a wonderful thing to do. You can do that when you are young and you are working in a record store and you can afford to do it.

JP: Any last thoughts on this?

Harvey Gold: Ya know it’s almost like it was scripted in a Hollywood story -- it was like a whirlwind. Ya know it was like you really were nothing, you changed the band around. You were Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland and you decided to put on a show and boom bang all of a sudden you’re in Hollywood.

-----------------

Some notes here at the end:

After Robert Christgau went back to New York City he wrote a lengthy piece that was published in the Village Voice on April 17, 1978 about what he encountered in the Kent and Akron area. You can see how that piece originally appeared in print right here or for much easier reading you can check out the digital version right here.

In Robert Christgau's piece you can see this photo of Tin Huey showing Harvey Gold and Ralph Carney and what look like Mark Price. That photo was taken at JB's the night of the middle show --- April 1, 1978.

Also I wrote a book about the history of music in Kent, Ohio called Small Town, Big Music: The Outsized Influence of Kent, Ohio on the History of Rock & Roll and you can purchase it through Amazon right here.

Don't miss my last piece published not too long ago about Black Keysmaster Dan Auerbach and his bluesplaying days on the unforgiving stages of Kent, Ohio.

Also I made a movie about the band Archie and the Bunkers and they are fucking awesome and you should watch it because they are so great. You can stream the film on YouTube right here.

I made another film --- and it's my first ever feature length movie and I think it's fucking great! It's about The Numbers Band. It is what I like to call a cinema verite rock film. Unfortunately it was supposed to premiere last week at the Cleveland Cinematheque but because of the Coronavirus pandemic it has been (for now) postponed to May 16. You can check out the trailer right here.

Big thanks to Christopher Butler, Harvey Gold, Dylan Tyler, Mike Aylward, Susan Aylward, Matthew Napier, Calvin Rydbom and Robert Kidney for their help and contributions to this piece.